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  • Ngozi Ukazu on Barda, taking on Jack Kirby's Fourth World, and Orion!

Ngozi Ukazu on Barda, taking on Jack Kirby's Fourth World, and Orion!

Chatting with Ngozi Ukazu on the upcoming Barda graphic novel!

Ngozi Ukazu is entering DC’s Fourth World in a new young adult graphic novel starring the iconic Jack Kirby-created characters with Barda. The Harvey Award-winning cartoonist and the creative force behind the webcomic Check, Please!, is bringing her signature style to the world of the New Gods. We spoke with Ukazu about tackling the project, expanding the Fourth World mythology, and more!

What is your personal experience with the New Gods?

So, before this, I had a pretty limited experience with New Gods. I was introduced to Big Barda and Scott [Free] from the Justice League Unlimited series. I remember watching that episode and just being like, ‘Oh, no, wait a minute. Who are they,’ I just love their dynamic.

Is it daunting to pick up on a one of the most beloved Jack Kirby world’s and story’s that he's ever made?

No, actually. It’s inspiring.

Jack Kirby is so good at creating ideas, so good at telling stories so good at just like, he's very much a volume guy. So just tons and tons of ideas, tons and tons of interesting characters. But it's actually really fun. Because something that he kind of doesn't do, I would say, he's, he's not really a depth versus breadth person. He's a breadth person, big time. So it really isn't daunting to choose one of his like, hundreds of ideas and say, like, what if something happened here? What if we explored this a little bit more, and putting, piecing together all of the little hints that he drops about Barda, it's actually really easy and exciting to just expand and expand on all of that

Barda explores New Gods mythology in new and exciting ways, for example, the expanded role of a classic character like Aurelie. When writing this is that one of the character you knew you want to explore more?

When we see Aurelie in Mr. Miracle in Scott’s flashbacks, she's this really interesting, quietly rebellious character who has dreams of more she she wants to dance, she wants to be free. She likes beauty. And it was it was something where we I wanted I just wanted to expand on that because we don't really see her. We see her in like Himon’s layer. And then we see her get captured and basically tortured. And then that's the end of her tale. And when when you have a character who is born on Apokolips, who starts to defy Darkseid, there's clearly a story there. So seeing her and kind of her like big sister-little sister relationship to Barda. I really wanted to write more about that.

Aurelie being a dancer who is locked up as she was trying to dance, was that inspired by Kurt Vonnegut’s Harrison Bergeron?

Harrison Bergeron. That story. Oh, gosh, that's such a that's such an interesting pull. It ties back to To the original comics, I mean, a lot of what my approach is to working with Jack Kirby's Fourth World is I go back to the original comics, I actually don't even try to read a lot of the comics from like the ‘80s or ‘90s. Or even like Tom King and Mitch Gerad’s wonderful run.

It goes back to Scott and Barda finding Aurelie. She's a dancer and but they find her like when she is punished and tortured to death when she has those electric boots, put on her feet. And there's a character who does that - I think his name is Protector Willik, And I thought that was an interesting character. But again, it's a little bit of like a depth versus breadth thing. I was like, he's interesting. But wouldn't it be easier to just fold all of that into Granny Goodness and maybe a little bit into Desaad? It Also reminds me of Kate Bush and the red shoes. Just you put them on and then go dance until you drop.

How was it balancing the tone of a pretty dark setting like Apokolips for a young adult audience?

Yeah, it's that's that's a question that I've been asked a lot like, ‘How do you keep the storyline like this when it's about Apokolips?’ and Apokolips is just a Hell planet.

When Kirby first wrote New Gods, like literally issue one, we see that the Apokolips is a place where people are enslaved, and that the citizens create weapons so that they can use those weapons to further subjugate those on the planet. It's not a good place - and that back then was intended for kids and it's intended for a younger audience. So I felt like I didn't really have to, I didn't really have to censor or lighten up anything in the story, because the original stories were already pretty dark. I think it helps that my style is a little bit like right and cute, that you can watch a character being tortured to death, but like, ‘Oh, Ngozi style is so fun and cartoony.’ But yeah, I didn't do a lot to change what was already there in the original comics.

The book refers to one of the greatest opening comic pages of all time in New Gods #1, was that something you always wanted to include?

I can't say that it was something that I was like, ‘Oh, this has to be in the book.’ But that phrase itself in introducing all of the Fourth World is so epic: “There came a time when the old gods died!” Jack Kirby starts this wonderful like incantation to like draw us into the world. It was fun taking that and flipping it on its head, because when Barda is introducing us to this world, she says, ‘There was a time when the Old Gods died,’ but she says like, ‘The ruthless died with the wise and the strong perished,’ which is just a kind of remixing to make it a little bit darker. Because I'm sure people on Apokolips they're not really taught that the Old Gods and great people died. They learned about everything in the twisted propaganda way.

How was it to put your cartooning style on the book? It really lends itself well to this story in a surprising way, especially with the Female Furies.

Oh, I think my style is really fun. It's really emotive. So when I was writing and drawing the Female Furies, I was like they could be a little bit more comical… it's almost like Three Stooges with the way that they bicker with one another and they have all their banter. I think I think it makes them a little bit more endearing and a little bit more fun. And then yes, they are murdering people on every other panel but when they do show up and it's just them it's really fun to draw their expressions… overly emotive, like reacting being annoyed with each other. It's so fun to draw characters being annoyed to one another, and my style and of itself to that kind of expressive nature.

What was the thought on having Barda pine for Orion?

I mean, it's just an alluring character. I love Orion. I've gotten to talk about him so much in each of these interviews that we've done. I do like that fake out. I know if someone's like a diehard Fourth World fan reading the first page and some being like, ‘She's in love with Orion!?I’ would throw the book across the room, honestly. But once you understand that Barda does not know what love is, it all makes sense. She just thinks of love is someone paying attention to her someone respecting her, someone's seeing her. And that's something that Orion provides as a rival as a competitor as a warrior for New Genesis. But as she starts to realize, like, okay, maybe Orion is someone that respects me, but he certainly does not love me. Then she starts to see, she starts to understand that, ‘Oh, this guy that I had been torturing Scott Free, he seems to just really want me to be the best version of myself.’ And then she's like, ‘Oh, maybe that's what love is. This guy who seems to adore me unconditionally just wants me to be the best. Hmm…’ It’s part of her character arc understanding what actually love is.

Why was it important to include vignettes of Barda reading a book about love?

So on the the very first page of Barda is her finding this novel - the story of the gardener, it seems to have been dropped by some New Genesis soldier, perhaps and she picks it up. And this first action is this catalyst for the rest of the story.

She's intrigued by this book, it seems to be a beautiful object. And when she picks it up and starts to read it, she gets transported into this world, into this myth of a gardener who, like loses her love, but she wants to resurrect her love. And as she's reading this love story, and is transported away from Apokolips, she starts to understand like, oh, well, maybe freedom is possible. Maybe love is possible. And I need to look at it at a meta level. I hope that people pick up Barda and the book transports them to another world. It's this idea like books are that powerful, like you can be lost in a book. It can make you change your mind on things. So on the actual literal level, it's Barda being transformed and having this catalyst - but outside of that, yeah, books can do that.

Are there any particular surprise characters you were really excited to use and loved writing? I'm always happy to see Bug the Forager

I'll be honest, boy, I love that character. He did feel a little random in this story, but I was just like, ‘Oh, we need someone else to fight with the New Gods soldiers. So let me just throw them in there. I loved writing Granny Goodness because she is such a such a true villain. I mean, Darkseid is the true antagonists and villain of this universe. But Granny Goodness is just a personal menace to Barda. There's like one Desaad cameo, which is fun. I think honestly writing the Female Furies and even giving like a little bit of background to a character like Stompa like letting Aurelie have more of a voice. That was really fun.

Was it an intentional choice to include Darkseid more as a looming presence than a main antagonist?

Yeah, absolutely. Very, yeah, that's a great question. Darkseid is not Barda’s villain. He’s like her boss.. he’s like he's a tyrant of this planet… he’s the head of this fascist realm. But Barda is not in direct contention with him. Granny Goodness is Barda’s villain. She is the person who is manipulating BARDA, demeaning her, really getting in the way of Barda reaching her full potential.

When I think of Darkseid, I think he's the villain to Superman. He's a villain to Orion. He's even a villain to Scott in a way, even though Scott would get obliterated in a boxing match with Darkseid. But he's separate… he kind of is the backdrop for this entire play, where the main people actually interacting is going to be Barda and Granny Goodness.

Your version of Scott Free feels pretty spot on, what was it like to explore his relationship with Barda on Apokolips and show off that dynamic?

It was like a Rom-Com. This is Barda talking to the man that will be her husband, but she doesn't really know it yet. She's still kind of brainwashed. So they're back-and-forth. Their push-and-pull is Scott seeing within her like, ‘Oh, no, this is a good person. This is a person who believes in justice and beauty and hope.’ When they're antagonizing each other, it's Barda trying to stomp Scott down, trying to like put him down and contain him which was we know is impossible. He is Mr. Miracle! But it's also Scott trying to point out to Barda that she has so much potential. So that's just so much fun.

One of my favorite things to draw was Barda meeting Scott for the first time and looking in his cell and just being like, ‘who is that like?’ She is completely caught off guard. I think she thought she would be the warden for some regular dissenter. But no, it's the hottest guy on Apokolips.

BARDA ARRIVES IN COMIC BOOK STORES AND ONLINE RETAILERS ON JUNE 4, 2024